Transforming Your Relationships Through Better Communication – II

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Deborah Fileta: Often times what we're told to do in our culture and society is when we're triggered, we're told to back away, cut that person out of your life, no contact, isolation, withdraw from them. But what if triggers were actually God's way of revealing what He wanted to heal inside of us?
John Fuller: That's counselor and relationship expert Deborah Fileta describing ways that you can improve your people skills. She's back again today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. This is a fascinating conversation. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
Jim Daly: Last time, Deborah shared several people skills which are just practical ways to love others through our communication. Spiritually speaking, there's application here. I think the Lord wants us to be good communicators. He's the model for it, and we talked about that last time when it comes to whether you're aggressive or passive or passive-aggressive or assertive, which is really the healthiest place to be. That is where you see Jesus communicating. He didn't back up and leave truth just to be liked. In fact, he would ask good questions and lead people to a conclusion, hopefully, that benefited their eternal soul. That was amazing. Today we're going to continue those discussions to talk about those things that trigger us in our relationships. I think we all know what they are. I certainly know mine, and I could really mess up with my wife Jean if I don't slow down and try to speak in a way that gets to her heart, not just make a point. I think it's going to be really helpful today.
John Fuller: If you missed the program last time, we've got audio copies available online. Certainly one of the easiest ways is to download our app and access all the great content anytime you need. As was mentioned, Deborah Fileta is a counselor and she's written a terrific resource for all of us to improve our relationships. We're built for relationship and for community by God. Step Up Stronger: Get a copy of the book People Skills: Your Relationships Are Only as Strong as Your Skills from our website.
Jim Daly: Deborah, let me kick off in a lighter tone here. You're a counselor. I would assume that what drew you to that profession in part was the interest in other people and helping them to fix their issues. That is the definition of a counselor. But you have a skill set that is different from, let's say, the husband that's a little superficial. In fact, I think in the book you talk about John being the floating duck type of person: news, weather, and sports.
Deborah Fileta: We talk about relationships like different levels of depth of a pool, if you think about it that way. There's the shallow end and there's the deep end. I always say there's different levels of interaction and communication. I could talk to you for an hour but not necessarily have a deep conversation. I think that's one of the reasons spouses struggle. The wife might say, "I feel like we're not really communicating," and the husband's like, "What do you mean? We talked for an hour yesterday." But we've got to understand that there's levels of communication. There's levels of depth. My husband always jokes that when it comes to levels of depth, I'm like the scuba diver swimming in the deep end of emotions, and he's the duck floaty guy up on top with the facts and the basics. The truth is you need both in relationships. So real brief, the levels of conversation: Level one is the most superficial. It's the facts. You can have a facts conversation with anybody. How's the weather today? What are you up to? What are your plans? Level two is a little bit deeper because it requires more of you. It's your opinions and ideas. It requires you to share what you think about something, your opinion about the weather or your opinion about your schedule. Level three takes us a little bit deeper and it's our feelings. I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling hurt, embarrassed, or excited. It's a lot more of who you are. Level four takes us even deeper into our beliefs, what God is teaching us, our faith, and something even a little bit more vulnerable. Think about that as you're engaging in relationships. You cannot swim in the deep end for too long. As my husband says, we need to come up for air. But if you stay superficial, you're not going to feel that your relationships are going deeper.
Jim Daly: In that regard, Deborah, I'm sure there's people listening and watching who are saying that defines my marriage. I'm frustrated and, using stereotypical language, it may not always go this direction, but my husband seems to stay at the top, at the surface. Therefore, you will say as the wife, "I feel emotionally bankrupt. I don't feel like we have deep emotional conversations." While the husband is thinking, "Man, we are connecting. She knows everything about the Broncos. That's cool." But that's not what we're talking about. How do you intentionally move to something deeper when you're used to the floating duck?
Deborah Fileta: This is where we have to remember it's not a lack of love, it's a lack of skill. Even the idea of emotional depth and emotional connection and emotional intelligence is something that many people haven't learned. Maybe they grew up in a family where level one and two were the dominant levels in the interaction. They don't even have the language for level three. This is where a counselor can be really helpful if you feel that you are emotionally bankrupt, if you feel that there's an emotional disconnect and you try to have deeper conversations and you feel like they're not going anywhere. This is a really great time to consider how the help of a counselor could encourage us as a couple to go a little deeper.
Jim Daly: Which again, it's that assist that really does get you talking in that way. Let me ask this question, looking at stereotypical marriage types: You can find that one is willing to go there, but the other may get defensive or protective when you move beyond level one and two. When we're talking about emotional hurts and those triggers that we will continue to discuss today, that spouse learns to not go there because when you go there, you get a response that trains you to not go there. It's too private. They don't want to go there. What do you do with something like that to pull that in a little bit to say, "No, we need help in this place. Let's not avoid it"?
Deborah Fileta: Often times I find with couples specifically that they only go deep when there is a hurt or offense. "I felt really hurt by this and so I'm telling you we need to change this," or "You did something that really hurt my feelings. I don't like how you..." And we want to go deeper at the moment of offense. They are going to get defensive. They're going to feel offended. They're going not going to want to engage if they feel like the only time you're coming to them with feelings is when you're hurt, upset, disapproving, or critical. We have to be careful to actually set aside time to go deeper when there isn't a hurt and an offense. One thing I've talked about before, but I think it's worth mentioning, is the practice of a 30-minute check-in once a week with your spouse. Set aside 30 minutes to have level three and four conversation outside of the heat of a moment of offense, to just create an opportunity to ask questions. What's something you were excited about this week? What's something you're looking forward to? What's something God is teaching us? Conversations outside of hurt can help you practice going deeper in a non-threatening way.
Jim Daly: I would think in that regard it creates an environment that hopefully can build trust over time to where you can get there. Avoidance is partially what I'm talking about. If you have a spouse that you want to go deep with but they continue to respond with avoidance, that will sound like, "I don't want to talk about that right now. We'll talk about that later." But later never comes. You're left asking the question a month later, a year later, "Can we talk about that?" "Let's not talk about that now. Let's talk about that later." That's the refrain that you end up hearing for years in your marriage. What do you do with something like that?
Deborah Fileta: You start with yourself because you are part of the equation of a relationship. So often I look at the ingredients my spouse is bringing and I don't like the ingredients. I want to change them, shift them, alter them. I see avoidance, withdrawal, and isolation. I need to get rid of that. The problem is you can spend your whole life trying and it might not make a difference. What you can do is focus on your ingredients. How am I saying this? What is the timing? What's my tone? How can I adjust the ingredients that I bring to this recipe? Believe it or not, when you change your ingredients, when you refine the way that you do it, when you learn to set boundaries, when you learn the right timing and tone, when you learn better communication, and when you learn assertiveness, it begins to change the entire recipe. That's what I would challenge you to do because you can focus on what you're not getting or you can focus on what you can do differently to change the equation, to change the recipe. Honestly, there is help with counseling. I know I'm a counselor, but I have seen people come into my office who say, "I'm doing everything right," but when I actually unpack what they're doing, I can show them many things that they can adjust and do differently that will get a different response.
Jim Daly: Well, which strikes right at the heart of self-awareness. That's the point and that's a good statement. Eli, your son, who's out in the gallery, on a lighter side, you've had some exchanges. He's only 13, right?
Deborah Fileta: Yeah, he's only 13.
Jim Daly: But he's a great conversationalist. What makes him that?
Deborah Fileta: Eli has actually had to learn how to become a good conversationalist. It does not come naturally to him. I actually dedicated this book to Eli because I noticed there's a lot of things that don't come naturally to him that he has to work hard on. Eye contact, having good conversations, and asking good questions to the point where I hear from so many people now who say to me, "I'm surprised by the fact that your 13-year-old asks such good questions." All of that is a reminder to us that we don't have to be born a certain way to show up in relationships healthy. These are skills that we can learn along the way.
Jim Daly: We love the question: What's the shortest scripture in the Bible? John, I'm going to put you on the spot. What is it?
John Fuller: I think it's "Jesus wept," isn't it?
Jim Daly: The point of that is that Jesus had emotions. The whole story of Lazarus dying, he could have prevented it, and Mary wasn't very happy about that. And yet he was emotional about it. There's going to be something that will come that is good from this. Speak to that idea that Jesus is also experiencing humanity from this side of eternity and this side of the throne room of eternity. God becoming man. You can sit for days and meditate on that, and the why of that and the how of that. His sacrifice on the cross and the resurrection was the way to salvation for us who believe in Christ. But in that context, he does model it for us. How did you connect the healthy approach that Jesus would make with all of us that fall short?
Deborah Fileta: When we talk about Jesus, he models healthy people skills. He models healthy relationships and we can learn so much from him. Biblical scholars have identified over 39 different emotions that Jesus felt and expressed through scripture alone. When we talk about going deep with people, level three and level four, Jesus was really good at meeting people at that level of depth, but he was also really good at being in tune and expressing that to others. 39 examples where he felt something, he allowed himself to experience it, and then he shared that with the people in his life. He was deeply troubled in the garden and he shared his feelings with his disciples and asked them for prayer and support. That was a bid for intimacy and connection. He didn't have to tell anybody how he was feeling. He didn't have to ask them for support, but he invited them in. When we're vulnerable, we're actually inviting people into our story. We're saying, "Come on in. I welcome you into my life and into my heart." When we block out our feelings and block out our weaknesses and block out our struggles, trying to pretend we're strong, we're actually also blocking intimacy and connection with people. A big people skill is for us to learn how to be vulnerable, to share what we're feeling, to share what we're struggling with, and to share what we need.
John Fuller: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and our guest today is Deborah Fileta. We're covering some of the content in her excellent book called People Skills: Your Relationships Are Only as Strong as Your Skills. Get a copy of this book and benefit from the insights, the principles, and the suggestions that Deborah has and see how your people skills can improve. We have the book here. Get a copy when you call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY or stop by focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim Daly: Deborah, one of the people skills that you highlight is vulnerability. You identified a study from the 1960s that highlighted the importance of vulnerability. It is so true that that is an aspect that the church, I would add, fails so often to be authentic, to talk about our own difficulties. Everybody thinks my sister Denise was in this spot where "I need to clean up my act before I become a Christian," because when she would look at the Christian community she knew, they all looked so perfect, like on the outside they all lived a perfect life. But that's not what we should be communicating. What is this study on vulnerability?
Deborah Fileta: It's called the Pratfall Effect and it's really interesting because they rated speakers on their level of engagement and connection with the audience. The speakers that actually had some sort of a blunder, maybe they tripped going up on stage or maybe they said something by accident or the mic fell off, those were the ones that were rated higher than the ones that were totally polished. The theme of that was the conclusion that we actually like people more when we feel that we can relate to them. It was like, "Okay, you're human." Which again goes back to Jesus's humanity. We can relate to him because he had needs like we did. He had hunger, he had a need for connection, he was thirsty. He had different needs that he showed us here on this earth. "I need you to stay with me and pray." What does it look like for us to communicate and convey our needs, what's going on inside of us, our weaknesses, our struggles, our issues with the world around us? Not just with everybody, but with safe people in our lives to show them who we really are. That's vulnerability.
Jim Daly: Those triggers, it's so interesting that especially in the marital relationship, but also in our parenting relationships, we want to do our best. Everybody wants a healthy, good, dynamic marriage and then your parenting side, you want to love your children, you want them to do well, you want them to do better than you. You want them to excel in every way. Then we get to these triggers and these buttons and they're like massive speed bumps in our desire on the healthy highway of life. Describe what a trigger is and that self-sabotage that we do. Why do we do that?
Deborah Fileta: The beautiful thing about relationships is they are a mirror to our wounds. When people get close enough, things are going to get exposed that were in hibernation, that were hidden before. When you start to get near people, you're going to start bumping up against their pain points and the wounds in their life. That's exactly what a trigger is. It's when we have an exaggerated emotional response to something someone says or does that really hurts us. Often times what we're told to do in our culture and society is when we're triggered, we're told to back away, cut that person out of your life, no contact, isolation, withdraw from them. But what if triggers were actually God's way of revealing what he wanted to heal inside of us? I tell a story about when I was leaving the house with the kids and I was in a rush and I hit my shoulder on a coat rack, which left a black and blue mark. Later that evening, John came over to give me a hug. He didn't know that there was a bruise there and he pushed up against it and I reacted. "Ow!" and pushed him away. This is what we do with our emotional sore spots, our emotional wounds. You may not have caused the wound, but you get close enough to me to push on it. The wound of rejection, the wound of abandonment, the wound of insecurity, the wound of inadequacy. When you get close enough to me in relationships or say something or do something that's going to push on that wound, I'm going to react. But what if the reaction is God revealing something that he wants to heal in me? I don't want you to react like that. I want you to lean in. I want you to heal. When relationships expose our triggers, it's an invitation for us to go deeper in our healing so that we can go deeper in our relationships as well.
John Fuller: For the person who is knowingly or unknowingly triggered that individual in our life, how do we have wisdom about saying something? I mean, maybe I'm the person God wants to use to help you deal with that fear of rejection you have. It really is hard because I could risk a relationship.
Deborah Fileta: If I was the person that just pressed on a sore spot and realized it, I would say something to the effect of, "I'm really sorry I hurt you in that way. I hope you know that my intention was this. I had a good intention towards you. This was what I really wanted to communicate and I just want to process what that reaction was all about." But I would recommend that you not do it in the moment of the trigger. Often times in the height of the moment, we want to process what that was all about, but your brain is offline during those moments. You're thinking out of your wounding and so often times the best thing to do is wait until the emotion dies down and then revisit that conversation a little bit later.
John Fuller: That's uncomfortable, though, that waiting.
Deborah Fileta: It is uncomfortable, but it's important because you're allowing that person to get back to baseline. You're allowing time to pass for your reaction to get back to baseline so you can have a more productive conversation. Think about it with your kids as well. When your kid's having a temper tantrum, that is not the time to engage in a rational conversation. We want to wait until the emotion dies down and then we revisit the topic.
Jim Daly: On the other side of that, it's not the time for you to become irrational as a parent. I was guilty of that. "You come over here right now or if you don't stop!" We get down to the lizard brain in counseling. Another skill that you highlight is forgiveness. We all talk about that. I think the Christian community understands that generally, but I don't know that we know the depth in the way that God has constructed us emotionally, the importance of forgiveness at the core. If you can get there, it's a beautiful place to be.
Deborah Fileta: Forgiveness is really for you, to free you from the hurt and the pain, to untether you from the wounding that that person caused you and the power that they have over your life. Unhook yourself. The only way that we can pursue forgiveness is to have empathy, which is a heart to understand and learn what that person might be going through, feeling, or thinking. I think of Jesus on the cross as he offered forgiveness to those who falsely accused him and crucified him by saying, "Father, forgive them, they don't know what they're doing." He put himself in their experience, had empathy for them, in order to be able to say, "Forgive them, Lord." So many times we're hurt by people, we're not considering their trauma, we're not considering their pain, we're not considering their wounding that may have led them to the dysfunction that they are in. But I think when we can have a heart of empathy, it leads us down the path of forgiveness which then offers us closure for us.
Jim Daly: Another important attribute, and generally these are all in Galatians 5:22, the fruit of the spirit, this is the character of God, but humility is another one. You can spend so much time thinking about that, that the God of the universe, the one who created everything, is a humble spirit. You'd think in a human context it'd be exactly the opposite. "Look what I've done!" But his character is humility. What do we need to emulate when it comes to the Lord's expression of humility?
Deborah Fileta: Having an accurate view of ourselves and others to me is the ultimate definition of humility because sometimes we have an inaccurate view of self. We inflate ourselves. We think we're great and amazing. We have so much grace for ourselves. But an accurate view of who we are, also an accurate view of the person in front of us and their value before God. When we have a proper view of self and others, it's so much easier to engage in these difficult things such as forgiveness, such as conflict, such as hard conversations and communication. Humility is truly having a proper perspective of who we are.
Jim Daly: You've done a wonderful job in this book, People Skills. It has such spiritual depth as well as practical depth from your counseling background. Well done. Thanks for being with us.
Deborah Fileta: Thank you. It's always a pleasure.
Jim Daly: This is so good. Let me turn to the listener. We hope that you're encouraged by the conversation today. I learned a lot and I know you have as well. I think Deborah's book is great. People Skills is essential reading. This is what you want to know and learn. It's like a toolbox for your relationships. I think everyone, myself included, needs a copy. When you give a donation of any amount to Focus on the Family, we'll send you a copy of Deborah's book as our way of saying thank you for partnering with the ministry and helping others. Last year alone, 110,000 couples were helped through a crisis here at Focus on the Family. That is wonderful and you're part of it. Be in ministry with us. When you contribute to Focus on the Family, you're contributing to the team of Christian counselors who are helping these folks when they call in. This is a top-notch team. It's amazing to hear from people across the country who have benefited. Sandra wrote to us from Virginia and said this: "Focus on the Family has blessed my family and me for many years. I'm especially thankful for your counseling ministry. They're professional and provided helpful guidance that had to be from the Lord. Thank you."
John Fuller: That team is deeply spiritual at the core and they offer biblical perspectives and understanding. They're just amazing. If you're struggling, know that our donor community makes it possible for us to have them give you a call back and talk to you and listen to you and offer some guidance. They can even connect you with a trusted Christian counselor in your area. And again, thanks to the generosity of those who partner with us to make this available to you.
Jim Daly: We want to thank you to Sandra for that testimony. That hits right at the target of what we're trying to do each and every day. We're adding a special incentive right now. If you can make a monthly pledge of $30 or more by July 31st, we'll send you a Focus on the Family travel mug and four ounces of my special blend, which I've been told by John is not a special blend.
John Fuller: It's single-origin. Just to set the record straight. You can tell who the coffee drinker is here. Single-origin Guatemalan. Am I close?
Jim Daly: You are very close. I think you get the point and we'll send that to you as our way of saying thank you. We'll also send Deborah's great book called People Skills: Your Relationships Are Only as Strong as Your Skills.
John Fuller: We're so grateful for your partnership and now is a terrific time to become a monthly donor and to sign up and get our special limited-time coffee and travel mug offer, and of course the great resource from Deborah Fileta, People Skills. Just call 800, the letter A, and the word FAMILY or visit focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Next time we'll hear from Lisa TerKeurst about the importance of trust.
Lisa TerKeurst: Trust is the oxygen of all human relationships. You starve a relationship of trust and you will starve it of vibrancy and potentially you'll starve it of life. It's impossible to repair trust that keeps getting broken.
John Fuller: That's next time on Focus on the Family. Remember, when you get in touch, let us know how you're listening on our website, through our mobile app, or on our podcast feed. I'm John Fuller and on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, join us next time as we help you and your family thrive.